Is Water-boarding TORTURE?
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I’m not sure why I haven’t written on this subject up until now. There is a part of me that sits in disbelief when I hear the topic on the news or in discussion. There is a part of me that thinks how can we even be discussing this topic as an option in a reasonable way with intellectual people. I have visions of Nazi Germany and death camps.
I find it chilling.
The subject is torture.
To me, the question regarding whether we should use torture or, as Joseph Goebbels would put it "enhanced interrogation techniques", in order to gain information is bad enough, the fact that we have been using it paralyzes me. First of all, I have a son that almost went into the military. Maybe that fact alone gives me perspective. When I think about my son being put in a situation where he is told to torture someone or being tortured is more than I can bear. It’s always easier to think of subjects like these when they are being done by someone else, to someone else, far, far away. To personalize the subject is to clarify the subject. And, make no mistake, if we torture, our troops will be tortured. We will reap what we sow.
For all those who would make the argument that water-boarding is NOT torture; I disrespectfully disagree. I suggest before a panel is arranged before any argument is taken, before any discussion is entered into that you try it yourself. And I know, I know you aren't going to do this but why not just do this one thing. Next time you are in the shower tilt your head back and let the water flow into your nose and mouth, see how just that one little act feels. Now try, just try to understand how that might feel with your hands tied and someone else doing this to you. In fact, I think it would be a great idea to have the entire Congress, The Supreme Court and the President water-boarded, then get back to me (or us) on the subject.
Some have argued that torture is the only way that we can ensure our safety and get the information that we need. I have only one question regarding the efficacy of torture…who would not make up anything, say anything, confess to anything to get out of being tortured?
Finally, the path that we have taken is evil and needs to be corrected. It violates all standards of good including the Geneva Convention as well as the Judeo Christian standard of doing unto others as you would have them do unto you. Do you disagree? Then I challenge you to try it yourself, and please get back to me with the results. Germany still has the stigma of the Nazi era and more than likely it will never be forgotten, is this what you want to be known for as an American?
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Do you think Waterboarding is torture?
See results without votingUS/UK complicit in torture
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I don't know about truth serums, somehow the character of the human race seems to want to hurt others...it's sad.
Sounds to me like liberal talk.
In Germany you could not talk against government as you do here.
I cannot stand someone can compare America with the Hitler Germany. I lived there.
Do you think it's right to torture people?
I'm not saying we are like Germany yet, but to ignore something like this is a very dangerous thing.
These men that try waterboarding have the ability to stop it at any time. Imagine that going on for hours. It is torturous. waterboarding does not leave marks which is one of the primary reasons that it is used. However, torture does not work. History has shown us that and other countries have come to this conclusion and have stopped practicing it. The United States using torture at Guantanamo Bay has brought shame on this country and that is the primary reason that the prison needs to be closed.
The climate in germany before the national socialist party took control is very close to what it is here in the United States today. A collapsing economy and citizens that were for the most part, blaming foreigners and welfare case for their countries troubles. The National socialist party in Germany unleashed the hatred that was already seething there within the people. Yes, it is liberal talk. liberal is about liberty. look up what the word means. True patriots will talk and stand against an oppressive government. That is what real freedom is about.
Hitler would not have bothered with an open discussion about it, he would have just killed everyone there and walked away
I agree, if we don't do something now, it might be too late tomorrow. What a shame.
That video is frightening
I know! I can't imagine what it must feel like to be shackled, tipped down, have you nose held and have water poured into your mouth. I just can't imagine and I can't help but think that anyone who would experience that would agree that it is torture. The guy who did it was originally for waterboarding. Please pass it on.
Terrorists or unlawful combatants (people shooting at you from within a civilian setting without uniforms that belong to no army of a recognized nation, for instance) are not covered under the Geneva Convention. Sawing the head off an unarmed American reporter with a dull butcher knife while he squeals like a pig and putting it on the internet for his family to see (or hear about) is covered under the Geneva Covention—but our enemy doesn't give a twit about it.
Hitler brutalized his own unarmed private citizens with, among other things, live operations on their internal organs without anesthesia and they always ended up dead. To even think about mentioning that when talking about trained murderers captured while shooting at our sons and daughters, without hearts, who's lifelong mission is to kill any westerner they can find unprotected is . . . well I don't want to say what it is.
I just don't think that Jesus would ever approve of torture, do you?
hmmm . . . I would to lean toward no. But he did tell that soldier it was OK to be a soldier and a Believer and soldiers in those days did far more atrocious things than waterboard. Then enslaved their enemies for life and whipped the tar out of them regularly and sometimes poked their eyeballs out or cut out their tongues. Of course in the Old Testament God told some of His chosen leaders to kill every man, woman and child of their enemies on some occasions.
I think killing and torturing are two very different things. No where does God advocate torture.
Perhaps you should prepare for a visit to the remote portions of the MIddle East and see if krumpits and tea work. LOL.
Here's a lil' diddy I wrote recently: Pret-ty please Mr. Tal-i-ban, tell me what you know...I know, I know dem Dems a little slow, almost laughable. Pretty, pretty, please Mr. Tal-i-ban...tell me what you know...
Good luck with your entirely-too-weak approach at obtaining pertinent information.
I have a nephew and he is 10. His mother believes entirely in "timeouts and this green light, yellow light, red light thing that he finds most pleasurable. Don't get me wrong, I love him but he is like Dennis the Menace on crack and steroids and time outs don't seem to be the answer.
How do you suggest we accomplish obtaining pertinent information from those willing to eradicate the "great infidel?"
Majicat, you stated that torture does not work. Do you think we'd be any safer as a nation if those administering the technique(s) told you the plans the enemy has for us? LOL
Torture doesn't work, people just say whatever in order to stop the torture. Besides that these people have been apprehended without due process, representation or trial. It is unAmerican to do this...would you want your nephew taken like that and be judged and condemned for years without any evidence or trial.
No; but you've missed my point entirely. My nephew isn't looking to lop my head off, shoot me or kill my fellow citizens if given half a chance to do so.
I hope you are not one of those folk that believe that Islam is a "peaceful religion." *So I raise my initial point try the krumpits and tea and see if that works. Best of luck.
And how do you know if the people we have put in prison for years are trying to do that? You don't! Unless of course you just trust the government to do the "right thing" and if that's the case there is no sense talking to you.
I know because I've served in the military. Let me paint a scenario for you. You, Brie Hoffman, are in Afghanistan. You and your company are walking thru a neighborhood when your unit comes under fire.
You can only see 7 or 8 of them but before long nearly every window holds a gun pointed directly at you; thankfully you've managed to find cover around the nearest corner.
Let us imagine for a moment that their are ten of you and you are certain there are upwards of 30 of them. (You know the type -- the kind that never use human shields and/or religious buildings as cover -- LOL)
You and your men manage to pick off a few of them BUT realize that you need to call in enforcements. It takes a little while but the enforcements finally arrive and your team is able to overcome/subdue the building.
You've conducted a room by room check and you are almost certain that you've either killed or silenced those attempting to kill you.
All of a sudden from out of a small back room jump three men with guns and you and yours shoot them and you see two men retreating because now they are not so tuff -- seeing that approximately forty of theirs have either been apprehended or killed.
The two that are running have guns but they decide to drop them and wave a white towel. (Pay close attention to my last sentence now; are the men that dropped their guns your friends?) Will krumpits and tea all of a sudden work? No, for example, they should have killed Muqtada al Sadr and his men but they let them go a couple of times simply because they knew they were outnumbered and they weren't quite sure if they were ready to meet their virgins just yet.
Oh, you are impossible...You probably think out having bombed the mountains of Afghanistan just after 9/11 was unjustifiable and inhumane. *The taliban claimed partial responsibility for 9/11.
Let me guess you are probably for women's rights, right? Where were the libbers that cry on tv programs but do not hale victory when women are loosened from subjective, often fatal coercion. Only in America. (North America to be exact) is such fluff allowed to run rampant and that not in a petri dish in some lab.
No, but I certainly don't trust this government to do the right thing when it's okay to go after a baby not once but twice should it live outside of the vagina.
Oh, but let's tip the scales and not look at that subject and save some whales and cry for the whales. (By the way, I believe we should be sensitive when it comes to how we view wildlife) but lefties are so wrapped up in the wrong things that they cannot see that when an egg and sperm collide it at that point is either an apple tree or a human. (Want to talk genetics now? Read my post prior to this first.
By the way, I also believe that we should pull every troop out of the Middle East and let heathen men kill each other.
Even here in the United States, in though sad, we should rally all gang members -- offer them a chance to get out; perhaps something akin to the witness protection program and then fund a war where thugs kill one another so they are unable to terrorize law abiding folk. (As sick is this nation is we could make it a pay-per-view event and use the money to take care of bastardized children with pigs for fathers and mothers. Lazy pigs.
Tackle this..YOU ARE AN IDIOT! First of all I am against abortion. Second of all we never should have been in Iraq or Afghanistan, we were lied to about both wars and you have bought the lies hook line and sinker. I'll tell you this...if the Iraqis were walking down our streets, occupying our street like we are they would be in danger just as our troops are in danger. YOU are full of preconceived notions that are 99% wrong about me and about this war. It's people like you (that are so easily manipulated) that have caused this countries downfall.
I never said that Iraq was a good move. Ever.
By the way, I am sorry if I offended you in any way but most people that take this topic on are highly leftist. Doesn't mean you are of course but even your first responder responded in similar fashion. *Kudos that you are against abortion.
You shouldn't put people into boxes. If you had read some of my other blogs you would know that I am quite independent.
Tackle This, I would ask you to rent and watch the film "Taxi to the Dark Side". What we are doing to innocent people will not go unpunished. We punished the Germans for what they did in World War 2 and we are not above God's law.
In addition, I would also like to point out that I am all for capital punishment for people who commit capital crimes but when it comes to the innocent, one had better examine himself to make sure you are on the side of the good and not in league with the devils agenda.
One thing you had better understand about torture, it's an issue of convenience to more than a few. It might be "those people" getting tortured today, but it could easily be you tommorow. This will go down as Bush's longest skeleton and since it's not even in the closet why cut torture a break by refusing to open your eyes (i.e. naively assuming this only happens to "evil people"). The true rub is much of the torture was done while the US waged war in the wrong country (Iraq) and toward the wrong citizens (Jose Padilla).
It may be Bush's longest skeleton but now it is Obama's.
26 Years in the Military, Combat Veteran. You have a lot of preconceptions here that are flat out WRONG! You INSULT those who dare to question anything you say, or disagree with you. I've seen those Hate Stares, from those I did nothing too, that hated me only because I was an American. They attacked us (9/11) and killed 3,000 innocent people, that did nothing more than go to work that day. Hundreds of Firemen, & dozens of Police. Now you're worried we might violate any of their human rights. They have none, those were forfeit the minute they joined up. By the way Iraq, and Afghanistan were involved with 9/11, and they helped the ploters, with training, papers, couriers, money, an in any way they could to attack the Great Satan America. But your RIGHT, let's stop the "Torture," an forget gathering any intelligence. Theres only about 1.2 Billion of them Worldwide. Let's just kill every last one of them now! We can do that. It is possible.
This says it better than I ever could. Copy it now, as it expires before May 9, 2010. anchorage.craigslist.org/rnr/1684713811.html
Sorry, apparently my "link" will not work, even if you type it in yourself. Try this one instead, and don't forget to put in the http:// first, then wwww.
resistnet.com/profiles/blogs/islam-explained-in-laymans.html
Read what Doctor Peter Hammond, in his book, Slavery, Terrorism, and Islam, The Historical Roots, and Contemporary Threat, has to say about what happens when they start to move into a country. I think that he's dead on with his assesment, but decide for yourself! I say NOT in America. Not now, not ever. Not as long as I'm alive!
ZEEMADMAN, they didn't do 9/11 your own leaders did that. I guess the whole innocent until proven guilty as well as all of the values our Bill of Rights came from should just be thrown out the window so that you can rush off and kill a bunch of people that never did anything to us. None of the so called terrorists on 9/11 were even from Iraq or Afghanistan. It really saddens me to see this misguided hatred. Hey I am all for punishing the guilty, I just think that they should be proven guilty through a bonafide court of law first and torture should not be allowed under any circumstance. It's people like you that make me afraid to live in the U.S. because this attitude is more along the line of Nazi Germany.
And, in case you think I am a Muslim sympathizer you might check out my other hubs. I am not. But that doesn't mean they deserve to be tortured for nothing.
For those of you that don't think waterbording works, the waterboarding of Abu Zubaydah resulted in the disruption of numerous attacks. But seriously, who is really bothered by the waterboarding of Khalid Sheikh Mohamed, who personally cut off Daniel Pearl's head. I suggest all of you who think America engages in torture watch the video, to see who is REALLY carrying out torture. Would you be against it if it prevents another 911? If it led to information that saved your families lives?
Torture doesn't do anything, a person will say anything under torture. Our own government did 911, they may have used other people but they did it. All persons should be given due process otherwise you very well maybe torturing innocent people.
I'm with you on this one, Brie. I like to think if Gore had been president the torture wouldn't have happened. Perhaps it would have. Either way it doesn't make me proud to be an American. I note that most military men think we should follow the Geneva Convention. The impetus for the torture apparently came from the CIA, and not everybody there agreed. And the green light came from the White House and the "Justice" Department. Thanks for tackling this issue.
Glad to see we agree on something!
i think its ok if it stop more atacks on america
It wont.
Water boarding is torture, I believe there are other methods that can be used to interview suspects in a more humane way.
Brie, you are a strong wonderful woman. I listened to both your video's . I know waterboarding is torture, any torture that they use really is wrong. I believe like you do that 9/11 was orchestrated, I also believe that they have to pack on more lies to substantiate the lies they already told, that includes recruiting more people to admit (no matter how false ) that they went to training camps and have to be tortured. It's all part of some elaborate scheme that is world wide to create a one world system. It all makes sense to me. they are making security "america's safety net" to entrap and imprison people". check out the fema camps all around. they have our poor military believing and brainwashed that they are doing something like protecting this country. Our interests are all over the map right now. We are everywhere we shouldn't be except our own back yard. Check out Alex Jones if you don't know who he is already. I get very overwhelmed when I hear and read this stuff, but I know it's happening. The Fema camps are empty and fully armed and ready to go. what does that mean? any remarks?
Primpo, I'm right there with you. If you will read some of my other articles you will see. Btw, I have already written about Alex Jones in a hub...check them out. Thanks for writing Primpo
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someonewhoknows 3 years ago
There seems to be something about so called truth serums that don't work .Why arn't they a viable alternative? Are they reliable or not?